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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1447
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Posted - 2012.11.19 01:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:It's not too late, feedback away. Once we got the OK to do so, we felt it was important for transparency to let the players know what was done. What "ok" are you talking about? You guys created this document yourselves and submitted it to CCP - are you seriously saying that the NDA is so restrictive that you can't even share things you haven't proposed to CCP yet? I was going to point this out as well, but I second Snow Axe's question/astonishment.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1447
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Posted - 2012.11.19 01:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Snow Axe wrote:So yeah, that's why it would have been a hell of a lot better to share this (or even a draft of this) with the players before submitting this to CCP. This was simply not possible due to both the timeframe and the NDA. Your own wishlist on where you all think EVE should be heading is under NDA?
I'd better be careful posting about what I'd like to see out of EVE in the future. I could be sued.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1449
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Posted - 2012.11.19 02:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Two step wrote:The NDA argument is dumb. The point is not the legal details of what the NDA covers or doesn't cover. CCP asked us for the document, and releasing it to the public ASAP would have greatly hurt the discussion between us and CCP. We released the document as soon as we were able to do so without hurting the process. A much more reasonable explanation. Glad to see you not using the NDA as an excuse/weapon against communicating with the playerbase as Aleks and Hans so often do.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1450
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Posted - 2012.11.19 02:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I can see that no one in the CSM is actively involved in industry. Super yield mining? Create incentives for miners in null by increasing yield? Create incentives for miners in null by breaking mineral compression? Your super capital fleet addiction is showing. It was stated a couple months ago that all the mineral compression numbers were being spreadsheeted by Kelduum and that he was looking for a solution in this regard to nullsec industry. Who better qualified to do that than the CEO of EVE University? Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1450
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Posted - 2012.11.19 02:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Snow Axe wrote:So yeah, that's why it would have been a hell of a lot better to share this (or even a draft of this) with the players before submitting this to CCP. This was simply not possible due to both the timeframe and the NDA. Your own wishlist on where you all think EVE should be heading is under NDA? I'd better be careful posting about what I'd like to see out of EVE in the future. I could be sued. Aleks challenged me to find an instance of him using the NDA disingenuously, as an excuse for lack of communication with the playerbase. I offer up his reason for not coming to the players first, because of the NDA, as a good example of just that. Even though the NDA has no bearing on this document at all. Unless CCP actually can claim ownership of his (and the CSMs) ideas.
https://twitter.com/grrusso/status/270352348612808704
I look forward to my PLEX, Aleks. Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1448
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Posted - 2012.11.19 04:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:CCP's strategic planning process is by its nature proprietary. You could have released the document without ever having run it by CCP ... and you would have not been in any legal trouble for having done so. There was no requirement to submit the document first into CCP's "proprietary" planning process. Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1448
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Posted - 2012.11.19 06:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:CCP's strategic planning process is by its nature proprietary. You could have released the document without ever having run it by CCP ... Well, there's a simple solution to that: Poetic Stanziel for CSM8! We all look forward to Kelduum for CSM8, because silence is golden.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1448
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Posted - 2012.11.19 06:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Seleene wrote:A word on getting lost in the weeds - debating the finer points of the specifics of this document (mineral compression, etc...) is all well and good, but you could literally create a forum thread for each one. We are not wedded to any particular WAY of accomplishing said points, we just want to see CCP address these points and put resources into fixing / finishing them. [:) Mineral compression isn't a point that CCP should be even addressing (not yet, anyway), so to see it included on a short, concise list of major issues is a concern. It needs to be de-emphasized in anything going forward, lest you give the developers the impression that "fixing" compression would actually benefit the game at all (it really wouldn't). But you're throwing away months of work by Kelduum ... it's the only work he's done. Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1448
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Posted - 2012.11.19 08:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Herschel Yamamoto wrote:The goal of the CSM is not to remain in compliance with the letter of their legal agreements, their goal is to get CCP to make a better game. You don't do that by spitting at them. I'm perfectly willing to see a document a day or two later if it means that any would-be ruffled feathers get smoothed down and the CSM has a better chance of actually making a positive contribution to the future of Eve. Just because being a **** is legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. These guys are too concerned with potentially upsetting their new besties.
The Mittani, last year, brought the issue of Monocles, the in-game demonstrations, and the failures of Walking in Stations straight to the gaming press, very likely to the consternation of CCP. He was less worried about his besties and more concerned about correcting the course of CCP development on EVE Online.
Given all that, I don't think his relationship with CCP was hurt all that much. (His fanfest gaffe is beside the point.)
The CSM is more concerned with keeping CCP happy than the playerbase, because they live in fear of being denied access if they upset their keepers.
Now this document speaks to correcting development course as well. But it's certainly not time sensitive. CCP won't be roadmapping their next expansion, deciding upon features, until January or February, so there was time to discuss on a public forum first, then they could draft their document.
What we have here is a roadmap that the CSM is already firmly behind (only five or six of them had any legitimate input on the document), and we're meant to accept its direction, more or less, as is. Given that you don't see much discussion happening in this thread, just the CSM defending their stance, speaks to that. Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1448
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Posted - 2012.11.19 09:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:After Retribution, it will be a viable profession. It will be a New Thing To Do. Hopefully. The new wardec system was supposed to make mercenaries a viable profession, but that didn't really pan out. Best to see how bounties actually play out once live, rather than make the mistake of assuming it'll do what it's intended to do.
Amarr Militia |
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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1448
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Posted - 2012.11.19 11:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Malcanis wrote:After Retribution, it will be a viable profession. It will be a New Thing To Do. Hopefully. The new wardec system was supposed to make mercenaries a viable profession, but that didn't really pan out. Best to see how bounties actually play out once live, rather than make the mistake of assuming it'll do what it's intended to do. the new system is actually not that bad (decshield aside) bad are the things you can (or can not !) achieve via hiring mercenaries Don't get me wrong. The new bounty system is certainly promising. But then, I thought the same of the new wardec system. So I'm going to remain guarded on declaring it a success until we see how it plays out with the EVE playerbase at large.
The test server will test those new mechanics. They will not test how players eventually utilize the system.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1448
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Posted - 2012.11.19 21:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cash Miner wrote:5. ... we need to acknowledge the fact that when 2 ships ram each other....both ships are going to take damage.... Can of worms that does not need to be opened.
People being concorded on the Jita undock due to unintentional bumps.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1449
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Posted - 2012.11.19 23:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:That dual mining/PVE site is interesting indeed. Quoting whole post for effect.
EDIT: OK looks like im all caught up. There were a lot of good posts (and some bads) so if i didn't quote you dont take it personally, im probably spamming the thread already as it is haha No trolling. I'll leave that behind on the first few pages. Fun is over.
You're doing a good job of actually discussing the document. It originally looked like you'd all get defensive and simply defend the document and the ideas you all put forward, rather than discuss openly.
Credit where it is due. Good job here, Aleks. Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1451
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Posted - 2012.11.20 20:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote: You just need to impose maintenance costs for the owner of a supercapital ship, these costs should be considerable and comparable to the production costs. I'll present the draft of this mechanics, but I dont insist it should be exactly as I say - just to give a general idea. You say this as if $15 or 600 million for a PLEX every month isn't a high enough maintenance cost.  There's an echo in here.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1452
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Call me crazy, but I really think it's really that simple. Make these ships risky, but fun as hell, and USEFUL as hell - and they'll die. Titans and Supers both suffer from lackluster battlefield roles due to several years of responsive nerfs without a cohesive design direction. They'd have to be cheaper before people look at it that way. Which would then lead to more proliferation.
It has to be tackled from both ends, probably.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1454
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Posted - 2012.11.22 03:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote: FYI production can be fun, mining can be fun. If it's not appealing to you personally - doesnt mean it's not for me as well. And this point stands regardless of supercapitals. Well yes. My point wasn't that mining and industry is inherently unfun (I mine highsec ice, make POS fuel, and cook drugs), but rather that increasing build times through various means isn't exactly doing anything to make that process more fun. That will only come through a true overhaul of manufacturing processes. Backpedaling!
Classic, Hans! Don't want to alienate any potential CSM8 voters.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1454
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Posted - 2012.11.22 04:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Is it just me, or is it kinda hilarious that the CSM reps who are weighing in most heavily on nullsec issues are not particularly knowledgeable about nullsec? Hans. Issler. And to a lesser extent, Aleks.
(Aleks is probably the closest we have here to a CSM representative who understands anything about nullsec.)
Hell, Kelduum should start weighing in now.
(Aren't there some actual nullsec representatives?) Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1457
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Posted - 2012.11.23 01:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
corestwo wrote:e: To put that in a somewhat more general sense, the ability and willingness of a CSM member to listen to the community is, to me, far more important than their individual knowledge of an aspect about the game (even if that's what gets them elected). You don't think that The Mittani, who's effectiveness on the CSM cannot be questioned, personally knew everything about every topic the CSM addressed, do you? I do not think he knew about every area of the game.
But he would flat out say "I don't know about this, nor do I care about it." He didn't try to be johnny-on-the-spot in areas of the game he didn't know much about, or had little stake in.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1457
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Posted - 2012.11.23 03:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:corestwo wrote:e: To put that in a somewhat more general sense, the ability and willingness of a CSM member to listen to the community is, to me, far more important than their individual knowledge of an aspect about the game (even if that's what gets them elected). You don't think that The Mittani, who's effectiveness on the CSM cannot be questioned, personally knew everything about every topic the CSM addressed, do you? I do not think he knew about every area of the game. But he would flat out say "I don't know about this, nor do I care about it." He didn't try to be johnny-on-the-spot in areas of the game he didn't know much about, or had little stake in. You and I seem to know very different versions of Hans then. I was referring to your question on The Mittani ... the last sentence of the paragraph I quoted.
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1458
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Posted - 2012.11.24 09:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rastafarian Attack Ship
Amarr Militia |
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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1458
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Posted - 2012.11.24 09:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
A couple critical comments ... and where have Hans and Aleks disappeared to? Shame. I had no idea they were that frail and delicate. Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1458
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Posted - 2012.11.24 11:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Oh you changed your post, I liked the frail and delicate one [:lol: I keep forgetting that Americans have Thanksgiving this close to Christmas. It's kinda ********. No point trolling if they're all on holiday. 
Amarr Militia |

Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1459
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Posted - 2012.11.24 18:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Public Outcry wrote:Keep on trolling, stanny boy. All you are doing is marginalizing yourself and that garbage blog of your's. Now that is poetic justice. You keep dreaming.
Amarr Militia |
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